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JGL-1583541

Articles Posted: 2  Links Seeded: 0
Member Since: 1/2010  Last Seen: 8/02/2010

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Treading the path: A journey away from Christianity and into Spirituality.

Mon Jun 7, 2010 3:02 PM EDT
religion, heaven, god, christian, spiritual, theology, infinity, spirituality, hell, enlightenment, eternity, christianty
By JGL-1583541
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It occurred to me today that while I often find myself taking the stand against religion in all it's forms and standing up for logic and my own personal brand of spirituality I rarely find the time to explain to both offended and interested parties alike the path that brought me to such a place, as I did not just one day decide I would champion against the established norms of our social structures, nor did I inherit such ideals from my parents to be passed along as the personification of their worldly beliefs. In fact the journey was made over years, and is still being made, as I realize now from travelling that road that it is as infinity, a reflection of our universe and the wonders it holds.

The beginnings of my life were the picture of many fortunate American households. A loving home with a family of 4, a dog, and a Methodist church that we sat in service to every Sunday. My mother, as any responsible housewife of her generation would do, dressed me in my church clothes every Sunday and made sure that my belly aching and whining was silenced before 10:30 rolled around and we found ourselves in another dreary hour of worship. Thus was life, and my beliefs, as a 10 year old in the USA.

As time passed I praised the Lord Jesus and the Christian God, but more for my parents benefit than myself. I found the more I attended church, the less impressed I was with the people there. As I grew into adolescence and began spending more and more time with after school activities and church groups I would view the people with me with relative disdain. These were the pious children of righteous men? These were the same kids I went to high school with, who drank, and had sex, and did drugs, and partied, and disrespected their parents, and stole, and lied. I saw these things, and I was angry... and I was angry a lot. These people... these sinners... claimed to worship God and here they were... spitting in his face. Alas, my journey away from this anger is altogether a different place, and not for these words.

As time went by, I stopped attending church. I was no longer of an age where my parents really felt they could force me to go, and trying would only spark an argument that would end up anywhere but me going to church. I wanted nothing to do with the people of the church. I regarded them as sinners and liars, and proclaimed I would meet God on my own terms, and no longer allow these people to speak to me from a place that didn't even really exist in them. I still spoke to God, and in my way I still believed.

Turn the page and another few years and you find me at college. Still grappling with the evils of the world, and all the resentment that a betrayed man can bring to bear on the entirety of society. To me the world was filled to the brim with those who deserved nothing less than a shallow grave and a place in hell. With this was an endless feeling of anxiety and worry. I was so caught up in the failings of virtue that I could barely find joy in my life.

While I was 23, this changed for me. I finally came to a place where I was so unhappy, that I had to make a change for myself. So I started a little soul searching, and began to finally ask myself questions I had denied my mind for so long. What makes me unhappy? Why do I feel this way? Why do I believe the things I believe? What makes me so sure that the things I believe are right, are right? Did I come up with these reasons, or were they given to me? Where can I find anything to help back up my own personal feelings? WHO AM I!?

These... were important questions. One's I think I had largely ignored. Once I started asking the questions... it was as if a veil lifted from my eyes. All of a sudden things that had seemed so very complex and horrible were easy. Things that had been worrisome became effortless. Just being able to have a conversation with another human being without feeling rage well up inside me was a possibility that no longer seemed impossible. In the end. I was no longer Christian, but something else entirely. I no longer belonged to religion, because I could no longer live without asking "Why?". I could no longer explain things without first knowing the answers and how I had come to them. I could no longer live by The Word.... when The Word was that of man... not God. Thus I came to be, and the reasons for this change became ultimately clear, and the truths I found for myself were that of logic... and which my mind could grasp.

1. The Bible : As the single most used weapon in the arsenal of Christianity this to me stands out as the most damning evidence that religion cannot be. This, in the end, is a work of man. Even admittedly by the people who penned it, it was merely the "will of God" and the "word of God" spoken to them in order to record His will to the humans which he created. Man is fallible, which is obvious to any who live on Earth. So how are we to trust that men have put away their capacity for misleading, misinterpreting, misunderstanding, as well as all the vices we know we possess in order to bring us the first truth we will ever know? The ramifications are dire indeed. Are we to put our entire FAITH in these people, and that they carried the Word of God, such as it is, in its complete and unaltered form in order to save us from an eternity of pain and damnation? Is there anyone you do not know right now that you would trust with such a thing?

I wish to give an example to put this into perspective: I come to you on the street. I have a book, and it is labelled The Bible 2: God's revisions for 2010. I tell you that it is the work of God, and in my eyes there is no deceit. I speak to you from a place of honesty that I actually believe it to be a new work of the Christian God. Would you believe me? Of course not. How could I make you believe me? To 99.99% of you, the answer would be "you couldn't. That's stupid.". Well now, for the example's sake, let us say that I am right. It was a new work of God. You die, and you stand before the pearly gates. God looks at you and says "I'm sorry. You did not live as I wished you to. I cannot let you into the kingdom of Heaven. You must spend your Eternity suffering in hell." You look upon him in complete disbelief. "But Lord! I followed your words to the letter. I trusted and had faith and through all adversity I kept true to The Bible and its teachings!" He replies, "But I put out a new Bible in 2010. You were offered to study these new words, and to change your life to live as it teaches, and yet you did not."

Because you did not believe the man who came to you, you are now damned to hell. Would you feel this is a proper punishment for not having faith in me to tell you the truth? Would you feel that you deserve to suffer for all eternity because you thought that I was lying? Do you believe God, in all his compassion and forgiveness, and completely knowing your mind, and the truth of your heart, would condemn you to suffer for all time hereafter? This is exactly how I feel towards the Bible in its original form. It is not God I must have faith in to believe the Bible is real, but Man. God is not here to tell me it is, and all I have is generation after generation of fallible humans with their personal agendas to go by. I'm sorry, but I do not trust you with my eternity.

2. Eternity and punishment: It took me a long time to come to grips with the concept of Infinity. I hope that reading this you will come to understand the gravity of such a thing. Eternity is a long time. In fact, it is forever. You must take the life you have lived... multiply it by 1000, and then think about that number for a while. That is a long time. Take the number you have thought about living, and then think about living that long again 1000 times. Now think on who you might be once these years have passed. Think about how long this has been, as it has now been 20 million years if you had just reached adulthood at the beginning of this. Now take that number, and multiply it again by 1000 times. Think about how long you have lived. Think about how long you have suffered in pain and anguish. Then multiply it again and again and again and keep doing it until you die, and you still will not have come to understand how long you would have to suffer to reach eternity. It is a forever without end.

This is what religion proposes is the punishment for worldly offenses. An Eternity of burning in a pool of lava, excruciatingly painful, and without rest or succor. This punishment is given for not just murder, but theft, adultery, false worship, avarice, and greed. It is the price for jealousy, and for putting something before the Lord your God. This is the punishment that you say God visits on those who do not know him. Those who do not believe the words of a man. This is the punishment for ignorance of a people who's God no longer shows himself.

Now think of the words compassion. Mercy. Forgiveness. Things you say your God possesses. Is your God merciful to punish someone for Eternity? Is he Compassionate for understanding the feelings that drive us, and the motivations behind our actions, and yet damning us for those same actions? Is he forgiving.... if he can let his anger play out for an eternity, regardless the crime? How can you describe God as any of these things... if he can't even forgive us for being what he made us. He can't even forgive us for being lonely when he left us. He can't even forgive us for never knowing him... because he is no longer among us.

3. All-Knowing, All-Powerful, Omnipotent: These are things God can be. These are things God MUST be. These are also things that we are not. I am, however, self-aware. I understand what being All-knowing, all-powerful, and omniscient would give me access to. If you have an understanding of Physics, and Quantum Mechanics, then you also will have an idea of the type of reality God would have access to. In fact, all dimensions. One of those being time. If you understand that God does not exist in any specific time, but in all times at once, you will also know that past, present, and future are all his domain. Whatever his "plan" as many are apt to talk about, is, it is already done as far as he's concerned. Whatever will happened has happened. Whatever can happen has happened. Of course this is if you subscribe to certain theories of the universe... but regardless, the concept is still there. If God can see everything, understand everything, then there is nothing you can do that will surprise him. There is no evil that man can accomplish that God has not seen. There is nothing you will do that will cause him alarm. He will have seen all, and understand all. God would have no physical body. He won't feel the anger that testosterone fuels in your blood. He won't feel the hot flush of heat as the blood rises to your head. He won't feel the nagging pain of spurned love in his loins, or the giddy happiness of endorphins and serotonin rushing through his mind. He will not be blinded by sorrow and despair, rage and anger, or happiness and joy. He will understand above all... and see you. You cannot hide, and in the end... there is only your intentions and your actions with their consequences.

In this... I know that I could never bring myself to punish someone for eternity. It is my compassion, my forgiveness, and my understanding that makes this so. If God will not forgive a murderer before an Eternity has passed, then are we to say he has less compassion than I? Is he so petty that I can do what he cannot? Is he so angry that my mercy surpasses his? Is he so jealous that when I wish that people could be happy and find their own way in this universe... he wishes them only pain and suffering for not wanting the things he told them to want? I am humble... and therefore I do not believe he could do any of these things. I do not believe myself above God, and if I can forgive... than he must be able to, lest I claim to be more loving to his children than he... even the ones who do evil. As this world is a hard one... and we are only that which it has made us... no more... and no less.

In the end my beliefs morphed and changed as I asked questions, and as people posed questions to me. What they are now... is for another discussion I think. Suffice to say I still believe in a God... a Universe who's intent shapes our reality, but as my theories on God and the universe advance, the more humbled I am by the scope of what I am undertaking. I know now that I know nothing. I accept and am humbled by this fact. I let no man guide my destiny, and I trust... I have faith, that any God that looks down upon me and is responsible for my creation and my life will receive these thoughts with an understanding that surpasses my most fanciful dreams. I live my life with ethics, and values. Not for his sake, but for our sake. I do so because I have stopped looking to please God, and look to survive and even thrive together. We are one race. One people. We are Human, and we deserve more than an absent savior. We deserve each other, and the support that REAL people can give. If God wishes something for us, than let his will be known, because in the end, we must push forward, and we have done only what he has allowed us and what we had to do to live. We have his blessings and all that he has given to us to make that happen, and I refuse to hold back in the misguided notion of filling a void that will never be full. Finding a truth that will never be discovered. If the realm of God is judgment, than I shall answer to Him when I die. I will make my case then, and if he judges me wanting... then I can only claim I was who he made me to be, and accept that in the end... my life was merely a game designed to end in my punishment at the whim of a greater being.

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JGL-1583541

I invite anyone to comment on religion and spirituality here. I also invite people to give reasons why they DO follow Christianity (or any religion really, just Christianity was specific to my life), and the logical process behind that. I'd like to see some examples on what would lead someone to truly believe in a religion, besides just emotions.

    Reply#1 - Mon Jun 7, 2010 3:06 PM EDT
    tgstk2

    Thanks for writing such a thoughtful article. You hit lots of BIG issues that are worth spending lots of time thinking about and discussing. As a physicist and a spiritual follower of Jesus, I have a couple of points to add to the discussion here.

    First, I think that there is a big paradigm shift that is overdue for those brought up in the Western scientific/rationalist worldview. The major fault of this worldview is that it enforces an illusion that the observer is separate from the observed. Some have called the paradigm one of non-participatory consciousness. This situation causes a fundamental rift between the human consciousness and the natural world, leading to severe neurosis and an essential spiritual crisis as the norm rather than the exception in Western society.

    "Religion", so to speak, can offer a way out of the current paradigm, but, alas, most organized religion only reinforces the Western/scientific worldview, or even worse, forces one to both accept and reject the premises and conclusions of rationalism. The "double-bind" that one may encounter when religion both comes at one's consciousness seemingly with a rational basis but then has inherent irrational components can lead to schizoid behavior, both in the individual and in the collective masses.

    I think that Jesus came to show us another way -- a way of essential participatory consciousness in the world. His life was the ultimate example of how to bridge the gap between opposites: material and spiritual, gain and loss, suffering and joy, life and after-life, belief and uncertainty. The Beatitudes sum up things most succinctly, but they take a lifetime to fully understand. The true walk of faith begins not with stating one's certainty in a belief system but with one uncertain step that you hope is in the right direction and trust that God will be with you even if you misstep. It is essentially a meek and humble path, both guaranteed to bring you suffering and joy as you open yourself to be vulnerable and feel God's love move on you and through you.

    • 2 votes
    #1.1 - Mon Jun 7, 2010 11:58 PM EDT
    JGL-1583541

    And thank you for taking the time to read it.

    I hold a belief that we are all connected through consciousness, and I would even go as far as to say that I believe that we are all an extension of God. Our consciousness merely a part of the larger universe, channeled into our physical bodies to experience that which by themselves they cannot. Life.

    I think that some people have the ability to see and feel their place in the universe. I view myself upon a backdrop of infinity, and as you can imagine, I come out quite the speck =P. That is how I view the entire world. I see all of our positions in the universe, and compared to the infinite expanse we are nothing. This influences my views on all things, as I take "reality" with a grain of salt. I realize that our concepts are more at play when it comes to our reality than any actual physics. That sounds like it could be rather self-depreciating, but honestly it really leaves me without any stress at all for the most part. I enjoy every day as a gift, and I look at life's goal as just being happy. If I am happy, then I feel like I am succeeding in life. So far... so good =P. Beyond that I trust life and events to unfold as the universe wills it.

    I would draw a similar conclusion when it comes to walking the path between concept and reality. We all must make our peace with the unknown. Life itself takes a step of faith, hoping that you walk in the right direction. In a way, we all put our faith in the universe. I trust that God will be with me, even if every step I take is a misstep. Thus I walk a path wholly different than Christianity. If my reward is a good life full of love and happiness and all the good things that a Christian man may aspire to... then how am I to tell the difference in living wrongly, and living rightly? I must assume that as my decisions bear fruit, and blessing fall upon me, that my path is the right one for me, and that any judgment put upon me would reflect my intentions and not the expectations that man has of God. I also know that in the end, logic is the fundamental law of the universe. You see, you decide, and you act, and thus comes consequence. True the eyes of God see beyond our current knowledge, and thus his logic comes from an entirely different set of rules, but I believe a being of that magnitude would understand why we make any decision we make.

    I also want to point out that while I think religion is a bad thing, spirituality is altogether different. I think it is everyone's fundamental right to be able to imagine their creator and the unknown. If anyone wants to believe in the Christian God and his son Jesus, than by all means. After all, to me God is God, whether you call him God, the Universe, Allah, Buddha, or Jim. You believe in a higher power, and naming it is as futile as it is dangerous =P. The only difference is what you believe HE thinks. In which case, I'd be quick to say that I believe everyone on this planet, including myself, is ignorant to that particular subject.

      #1.2 - Tue Jun 8, 2010 11:53 AM EDT
      tgstk2

      I agree with you on many, many levels here, JGL. However, one point where I diverge is on the statement "logic is the fundamental law of the universe". While logical systems certainly have their place, Godel's theorem has shown that any logical system is either incomplete or inconsistent. Because of that, there are some aspects of reality that must lie outside of the realm of logic. Where exactly is the dividing line -- now that is a question for the ages. Certainly the mystics through the centuries have pondered that to some good result.

      • 1 vote
      #1.3 - Tue Jun 8, 2010 11:47 PM EDT
      JGL-1583541

      Ah yes, well, I stand corrected on that point. I should know better than to say definitive statements like that when I'm discussing my philosophical theories ;) . I tried to address that by qualifying it with "God would see things we do not, and have access to different rules in which to use his logic." I guess what I meant to say was that logic is the only thing we have to work with in order to define our universe. I think the problem with saying logic is infallible is that we are not working with all the facts. Regardless of what we know, there could be any number of things we do not know, and therefore logic can never be used in its complete form. If one had infinite knowledge of all things, then their logic might be infallible. The very reason that logic does not work in all cases may be that in order to create our reality, certain properties must be in play that we can not yet , or perhaps may never be able to unless our perspective changes, see or understand.

      I do see how some statements could seem to never be able to be proven logically, but... the fact of the matter is there is always the possibility that saying "This statement is false" can be proven logically with the right type of knowledge and the right perspective =P. While that seems stupid and is altogether useless in practical application... it is still a possibility! After all, we see only three dimensions. Who knows what kind of insane properties really exist.

      I'd point to one of my posts below about the creation of the universe and say that it is quite possible that everything we know, and all the logic and mathematics we use, could be arbitrarily created to make our reality what it is. What is TRULY real and what we perceive to be real... might be frighteningly different =P.

      • 1 vote
      #1.4 - Wed Jun 9, 2010 7:31 PM EDT
      tgstk2

      I think I see what you're saying now! I appreciate your reiterating things so I could understand.

        #1.5 - Wed Jun 9, 2010 10:47 PM EDT
        Reply
        Metal Guitarist

        I view God the Father as the grandfather Who needs His medicine, and poor Christ as the ever-adoring Son Who cannot bring Himself to put Dad away-after all, Dad did raise Him from the dead.

        • 1 vote
        Reply#2 - Tue Jun 8, 2010 10:23 AM EDT
        MarkLHolland

        To MG

        Just wondering have you ever considered that God(s) are not the vengeful, murderous, hating, despicable, bigoted piece of Cr?p that is recorded in the bible, and may have a vague awareness of the physical world but take no interest in it. That is one of the gripes I have with the organized religions is that because of their evil and hate they turn people away from spirituality as well as pushing them to the point of rejecting the false Gods of the Christians, Jews an Islam.

        Spirituality has as much in common with Christianity as the steaming pile of solid waste has to the Bull that left it. Just wondering. It is one of the things I like about Buddhism is that they have the spirituality without needing the God(s).

        • 3 votes
        Reply#3 - Tue Jun 8, 2010 11:07 AM EDT
        Metal Guitarist

        Possibly. We'll find out in the end.

        • 1 vote
        Reply#4 - Tue Jun 8, 2010 11:46 AM EDT
        tgstk2

        Does anyone ever stop to consider that Jesus' message is not being fully exercised in the modern assemble of "Christian" churches? The modern church experience is largely foreign and even counter to the teachings of Jesus. As such, I am personally very slow to slam Christianity, which I hold to be the spiritual practice of following Jesus' life and teachings. The stuff taught in many churches and "Christian" media outlets has faults galore, but Jesus himself is a figure who showed humanity a completely new and better way to live.

        • 1 vote
        Reply#5 - Tue Jun 8, 2010 11:53 PM EDT
        euterpe-1641499

        Gandhi once said that if Christians truly lived according to the teachings of Christ, the whole world would be Christian.

        • 2 votes
        #5.1 - Wed Jun 9, 2010 8:23 AM EDT
        MarkLHolland

        To tgstk2

        For me Christianity is Satan made Flesh, while Jesus was what I consider to be a good man, man of the God(s), teacher of the God(s). Christianity in it's actions and history are the complete opposite of Jesus. They have become the Anti Jesus. So I do not plan on being slow to slam it.

          #5.2 - Wed Jun 9, 2010 8:57 AM EDT
          Reply
          euterpe-1641499

          JGL-1583541

          Thank you for this seed... you path to the enlightenment you've achieved is truly a moving story.

          I was raised a Hindu. As you know, Hindus follow a caste system that signifies the status of a human being by birth; that is, your place in society is ordained not by what you do, but by the family name you carry. Fortunately, I was born Brahmin, the highest caste.

          My family came to the US when I was eight. Influenced by the cultures around me, acknowledging that hard work DID signify a better life here, charmed (I do mean charmed - you must understand, I fell in love with the IDEA of what America meant: the freedom of expression, the multitude of cultures, the limitless possibilities of achievement - charmed me silly!) by the American Dream, I began to question the logic of my status as a Brahmin. But my parents were down-to-earth people who encouraged hard work and modesty: they didn't behave as if their Brahmin status gave them any more privilege than anyone else. They left India because they knew being Brahmin wasn't enough. America was the land of opportunity for ALL people.

          While at college, I went against my parents' wishes and married a Lutheran. He charmed me silly too! My parents, of course, wanted me to marry a Hindu Brahmin. They were Westernized, but wanted to maintain their culture. Much like the Catholic faith, Hinduism is as much a way of life as it is a religion.

          My husband went through Lutheran schools and, much like you, ended up with an aversion for much of Christian teachings. He did not believe in converting people and viewed churches as places of control, not places of worship. His family wasn't strict religiously and had sent him to Lutheran schools more for the sake of better education than anything to do with faith. However, his family had just as much reservation about me as my family had about him. But both families agreed on one thing: we loved each other.

          My husband and I started out from physical attraction and then quickly realized how much we had in common. He was raised in the Midwest and valued hard work and honesty above anything else. We also figured out something else... we were more alike than different. We were taught to value the same things and had the same goals and dreams. We promised each other that we would not force either religion on our children. But that we would expose them to both.

          It's been twenty-two years and we are still happily married. We have two daughters yo whom we kept our promise: they have been exposed to both religions. Neither one seems particularly interested in affiliating with anything organized, but my youngest, who is twelve, just told me that she has been praying about the Gulf spill. She has more faith in God than in BP, I guess. My oldest is a sophomore in college and a devout Agnostic.

          So, you see JG, I'm living proof than religion CAN be modernized. But, I really think the churches, temples, and the like can just stay out of it. They would only spoil the beauty and the honesty of self-discovery.

          I will add a non sequitur... since I am a Brahmin, a direct descendant of one of the seven Saints who founded Hinduism over five thousand years ago, I can commit no sin. Hinduism is the only religion that views all other religions as equal. Therefore, as long as my intentions are pure, I have not broken my faith. I can worship anywhere and I am not required to marry a Hindu to remain one. Unfortunately, my husband doesn't get the same pass as I do! Technically, his wife and kids are going to hell.

          • 2 votes
          Reply#6 - Wed Jun 9, 2010 12:45 AM EDT
          MarkLHolland

          To Enterpe

          Beautifully story there, I am happy for you and your family, it sounds as if you have received the blessings of someone. Luckily there is no hell, so you and your children are ok, I am glad that both your families at least accepted your love for each other. There are people out there who would have had a heart attack over your marriage.

          May the God(s) continue to bless you and yours.

          • 1 vote
          #6.1 - Wed Jun 9, 2010 9:05 AM EDT
          JGL-1583541

          And thank you for responding, I enjoyed reading your story.

          It is easy for us to forget the trials and obstacles that people around the world struggle with in their own religions. Religions are like voices, and even though people may speak the same words, it always comes out sounding differently =). I think that there is no choice but to modernize religion, and I believe all of them need this. We are not a static people, and as our culture, our understanding, and our civilization advances, so must the way we apply our beliefs to our lives. It is hard for people to take words they have read for so long and find in them different meaning, but I hope that eventually everyone will see the intent behind the word, instead of just the words themselves.

          It is too much to expect the youth of our planet to accept the ways of their forefathers. The way we communicate, share information, our social and economic structure, and the way we interact are so far removed from the application that current teachings try to impress. Many would say that "you cannot alter it, or else you are changing the religion" but I do not believe that. God is not dumb. He isn't an idiot that thinks that people don't change and that they will always live in mud brick houses herding sheep. The lessons that religion teach can be applied today, but they need to be applied to our society, not to a society we may wish is still true.

          Regardless, I am really pretty sad at how religion turned out in our society. It has brought so much pain, and in the beginning it had only good intentions. Love, Compassion, Mercy... all leading you on a path to eternal life. Instead people just want to use it as a weapon to send people to hell heh. Hopefully some day enough people can come to terms with their life, and find harmony with society, even with their beliefs.

          I am glad to hear that when you came to the USA, you found a home. In the end, and through all the mess that we endure as the "pinnacle of human civilization", the USA brought something to the world that it had never seen before. Equality, tolerance, and acceptance. I know people from other parts of the world, especially some of the darker corners, can appreciate that when they come here. When you are so close to it, it is easy to only see the bad things about our system, the anger, the hate, and the vestiges of racism, sexism, and religious persecution. I think what people forget is... that as bad as we seem sometimes, there has really never been better. I'm sure you can understand as much as anyone how easy it is for people to take shots at those who are on top. Even though you never asked to be Brahmin, and to be set above many others in station, and are humbled by such a title and position, there are still some who would look upon you with scorn and disdain simply for the life you were born into. The same goes for us all here. We were born into freedom, democracy, and a position that seemed to tower above the rest of the world. In many ways it is our curse, as with that power, comes scrutiny and responsibility. Responsibility to BE better than those who hate you, so that you may use your station for the betterment of mankind. The responsibility to understand their position, and to try and live with humility and grace. Power and authority is not a gift or a right... it is a burden, and a responsibility, but one that should be taken proudly.

          I digress...

          I think that the charm you felt when entering the USA is that which makes it shine. Through all of the muck... I feel that is the true gift that American's want to preserve, even if they don't realize it or fancy themselves with shinier goals. The ability to stand upon the ground of our country and say "I can. I can do anything if I put my mind to it. No one can hold me back but myself, and if I work hard enough, I can overcome the adversity that people throw at me." It is true, as much as people who never realize that dream hate to admit. Life in the US is one of your choosing. Things may happen, and people may get in your way at times, and opportunities may seem to pass you by... but it is my firm belief that to those with the fortitude and the will to survive and prosper... this is a land of infinite possibilities still. So thank you for accepting the gift that this country offered, and then turning around and giving back in kind :). Our future will be written by those of all races, cultures, and religions that come together and realize that what makes a nation is not the color of its people, or the stars and stripes of the flag they fly, or even the God that they worship. It's the ability to come together and work for a COMMON goal... that of prosperity, happiness, and liberty. It's the ability to accept that life is about compromise, and accepting the diversity of people as well as holding true to your own virtues, and realizing that different isn't the same as evil. That sometimes you cannot bend someone to your way of thinking, but you can still reach out and help build a life together in cooperation and friendship.

          The time for jealous Gods and spiteful men is overdue for its passing. How could any God not be proud to see its people come together in harmony, despite their differences, and to forge a future they can all enjoy? I think too much we think that our Gods are as flawed as we are. That their jealousy and envy have no bounds. I think otherwise :), because the more we advanced, and the more we learn, the more we know that cooperation, tolerance, and respect is the way to prosperity and peace. If a God knows everything as to be more advanced than we are... than it must be true that He knows that these things are better as well.

          • 1 vote
          #6.2 - Wed Jun 9, 2010 9:21 AM EDT
          euterpe-1641499

          To Mark,

          Thank you for your kind words. My husband and I do indeed view ourselves as blessed. We recognized something in each other at our first meeting: I'm living proof that love at first sight is a reality. We weren't going to let religion, culture, and, most importantly, others' perception of us keep us from being together. Too often, people get bogged down with all the BS life throws their way, and forget that the life they have is theirs to live.

          I hold a gentler view towards Christianity than you do. I admire the possibilities that faith opens up to the believers. Saying that, those same possibilities have led to cruelty and grandiosity within the faith. Christians must remember to be humble before God and the world.

            #6.3 - Wed Jun 9, 2010 12:39 PM EDT
            euterpe-1641499

            To JGL:

            I know exactly what you mean about God wanting us to be in harmony with our fellow men. All religions were created to achieve prosperity, happiness, and liberty. All religions were a grass-roots movement towards better lives for the people who were suffering during those times. Why is it that we use such a pure and noble purpose to hurt one another?

            I wish we could rewrite aspects of all religions to respect and embrace people of different faiths. I wish religions could focus on the similarities found within them: living for a higher purpose, selfless love, kindness... I could go on and on. But that is the curse of organized religion, isn't it? It must be enforced by men. And with all the goodness mankind has in their hearts, there also lurks selfishness, greed, and most importantly, doubt. The existence of doubt among the believers has been used to make those believers do all sorts of things to prove their faith. Sometimes this need to prove is self-inflicted; other times, it is coerced from somewhere else: either way, it is an insidious tool that has corrupted all religions in one way or another.

            Which is why I have little hope that religions will modernize themselves. I think what will more likely happen is that more and more people will leave organized religion altogether, or, follow a basic concept of what their respective religion means to them, as my husband and I do. Most people are quite willing to be tolerant and accepting of one another. It's the religions of the world that differentiate between themselves. Will that achieve modernizing, in the end? I truly don't know.

            On an aside... I am lucky that I immigrated during a time of great acceptance and growth in the US. I rarely experienced racism of any sort, and I grew up in Nashville, TN. But there is a collective crisis going on in the psyche of many people in this country. I won't go into all the reasons why: you know them as well as I do - and yes, religion has played a big role in this crisis. But I firmly believe that we Americans, white, brown, yellow, and black - Christian, Jew, Hindu, and Muslim have achieved something that is envied by the rest of the world. We will continue the forward path that we were once on. Maybe it will take a generation to die off before this can resume, I don't know. But we are a charmed people, us Americans. Our values stem from inclusion, not exclusion; we value contributions more than birth-rights; we are instinctive givers, not takers. It may take years, but I firmly believe we will rediscover the best of ourselves one day.

            I'm sending you a FR, btw, JGL - you have moved me more than anyone else on the Vine. It would be an honor if you would accept.

            • 1 vote
            #6.4 - Wed Jun 9, 2010 1:20 PM EDT
            JGL-1583541

            Unfortunately the answers are right in front of us as to the "why" people abuse religion hehe. Jealousy, Greed, Avarice, Fear, Lust, and Ignorance are the culprit of nearly all human problems. Many times it is hidden behind the spoken intentions, but if you really think about it, most times you can point straight to one of these basic vices. People scream their rage against other religions because of fear- fear that if they admit another religion has the right to exist, and people follow that religion, that it makes your religion "wrong", and therefore your God ceases to exist. Greed, because they hold power in their hands, and control over the people who follow their religion, and if people leave it they lose that power. Jealousy, because they see the benefits that another religion has garnered, and they want that for themselves, and again fear because if someone else is "blessed" then that shines doubt again on their path being the righteous one. If they allow other religions to prosper(or worse, no religion hah), then people might see and think that maybe their God smiles on them for their beliefs.

            If anyone has ever felt that nagging feeling of jealousy at something that you have no stake in whatsoever, then they should be able to empathize with how things get as out of hand like they do. I admit I do the same thing. I will know a woman, and be friends, and desire nothing more from the relationship than friendship. Then she finds a man whom she loves, and all of a sudden I feel a pang of jealousy. For what? Something I did not seek in the first place? Not only that, but I'm in a perfectly healthy and extremely happy relationship with someone I love. So what about that sudden feeling of jealousy makes ANY sense whatsoever? Nothing honestly. Which is why I take a breath and put it out of my mind, and then scold myself for being so base. The thought automatically came without my bidding, but I was able to recognize it, and then dismiss it. Many people act on these random emotions, and their lives consist of a ton of drama because of it. I think that everyone is confronted with automatic emotional responses like that. It is the curse of our humanity. The difference among us is the ability to recognize that emotions are just that... the body's response to stimuli. It is part of our biology, and it isn't something we can do anything about. We do have free will to ignore those random pangs, and I exercise it daily. Most people pretend those things don't exist, but in all honesty I think that everyone has those moments where they feel something that they would rather not even admit to themselves that they felt. I think it is because people feel that those emotions are reflections of real logical thought that you aren't addressing. I do not believe that at all. I feel attraction to women, I feel a pang of envy when I see someone achieve a great deal of success, and I feel the urge to protect that which I have... even if the situation doesn't require such a thing. I battle with my nature every day, but it is a battle I am determined to win. I refuse to fall victim to my emotions, and I strive to understand my feelings when I have them, so that I do not make decisions hastily and without using the sentient intelligence we are gifted with.With practice, I feel these base pangs subside, and become easier and easier to manage, and even at some point and in some things will cease altogether. We are not slaves to our nature, but we are subject to its' influence if we are not careful ;).

            I am glad to add you, and I am even more glad that you found truth in my words, and that they moved you. I always find that even though I type a million words on the Vine, and sometimes they reach a very... very small audience, that if one person can find meaning in them, and appreciate what I have said, much less have it positively impact their life, then I find the entire process intensely rewarding. I truly feel like I have found a place of happiness in my life, and I wish it for others. I hope they can find the kind of peace that my mindset has allowed me, because I was not always this way, and the pain and anguish that was every single day in my embattled mind stands always in stark contrast to the joy that overtakes me more often than I may deserve now.

            • 1 vote
            #6.5 - Wed Jun 9, 2010 3:15 PM EDT
            euterpe-1641499

            JGL - Your honesty is staggering! It makes me so happy to know that you've found peace and love. What's more important is that you have found the capacity to appreciate what you have.

            I must add Sloth to your list. I find that so many people are too lazy to get involved. The old "it doesn't concern me, so why should I care" syndrome. So much wrong is allowed to exist because of this.

              #6.6 - Wed Jun 9, 2010 3:40 PM EDT
              JGL-1583541

              Ah yes, it makes me wonder if me leaving that out is a reflection of my own shortcomings =P. Sloth is probably my worst vice. I love to relax, and just enjoy life. While this is a good thing, it also can be the very thing that keeps me from being able to positively impact the world as much as I would hope. The tasks in front of me seem endless and daunting. It is fear of failing after spending time and resources, and my love of sloth and the happiness it brings me, that keeps me from achieving some of my goals. In a way it makes some of my happiness selfish, but I recognize this, and hopefully I will be able to overcome it, and perhaps be able to truly add substance to our world. I have to admit not participating in the world at large has a definite stress reducing factor =P. That isn't to say I do not do anything, but I know I could do more... and I know I am capable of doing more. I have been told I have a talent for guiding people, and helping them to reach places in their minds and their lives that they hadn't seen before. If that is true, then it is a powerful gift indeed, and I know that, and I want to use it to help the world if I can. Time and my own willpower will decide if I am worthy =P.

              Oh but those are the fantasies of the mind :). Words are pretty, but actions define our reality!

              • 1 vote
              #6.7 - Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:32 AM EDT
              Reply
              T Bourlon

              Forget physics, nothing will shake up Christian belief like studying biblical history. Basically a bunch of guys got together in 325 A.D. to put together a platform, and there were many competing theories as to what should go on that platform. Some theories were kept, others completely rejected for various reasons - popularity being one. Some cherished scriptures were thrown out for what could be seen as subjective reasons. A couple of theories were somehow merged together, and a couple more were pretty much made up on the spot. Okay, that's the short version.

              And yet I still believe, and I am still a Christian - why? Two reasons. 1. Because I don't believe that nothing exploded for no reason and became something. Seriously, I don't know that much about science (and find the study of "logic" to be boring), but what little I do know tells me that COULDN'T have been what happened. Even if you want to think of the Universe as a big, empty petre dish that had just the right amount of chemicals dropped in at just the right time, SOMETHING dropped those chemicals. Was that something the God of the Christian bible? Beats me, but something started the process, which completely rules out any possibility that the atheists are correct and there is no God.

              But the second reason is more important. 2. Admittedly, I am more familiar with Christianity than anything else. I know a smidgen about Islam, less than a smidgen about Buddism or Judaism, and probably nothing about anything else. And like you, I rejected the Church I was raised in, but not because I saw the people as sinners or hypocrits, but because I thought the things they were telling me were WRONG. They mostly had to do with feminism vs. Church teachings, but there were a few others, the big one being that ONLY members of my particular brand of Christianity would go to heaven. All those poor Baptists and Methodists, good as they might be, wouldn't make it. And that to me is just snobbery. That was the beginning of my own personal beliefs, some of which are so far outside of mainstream Christianity that some would call me a heretic.

              So why do I stay Christian? Mostly because of Jesus, I think he was right about the way we should live and treat others. But to me, Christianity is a road to God, and there are many roads, so I don't lose any sleep over whether I am the "right" kind of Christian. I don't think there is any such thing. Nor can I say with any certainty that ONLY Christians will get into heaven. If someone follows God's commandments as he laid out in Matthew, then I think that's got to count for something. I look at Christianity as an honor code to live by, and I feel if you call yourself a Christian you should live like one. And I fall short alot, admittedly, but I keep trying. In this life, the journey is more important than the destination.

              • 2 votes
              Reply#7 - Wed Jun 9, 2010 10:26 AM EDT
              MarkLHolland

              To T Bourlon

              Good post (thumbs up)

              • 1 vote
              #7.1 - Wed Jun 9, 2010 11:23 AM EDT
              euterpe-1641499

              T Bourlon - Thank you so much for sharing. I truly appreciate your perspective.

                #7.2 - Wed Jun 9, 2010 3:11 PM EDT
                JGL-1583541

                Thank you for posting T Bourion.

                I have begun contemplating the beginning of the universe. Some day I may have a theory that would mean anything, but right now I am working from a place of -

                In the beginning there was nothing. Thus infinity came to be. Infinite nothing. In infinity, all probabilities will eventually come to pass, and thus was the beginning of the universe. Time had the possibility of existing, and therefore began to exist. God had the probability to exist, and therefore existed. At that point he could create matter and begin the universe as we know it.. as he'd probably get pretty bored with pondering his existence among infinite nothing and infinite time.

                Another theory would be that our universe is entirely a creation of a greater being (God), and the physics behind HIS creation or the reasoning for his existence is beyond our ability to even understand, because the properties of physics may be wholly different where God exists. There may very well be an extremely simple answer to why God exists, and to how he created the universe. Simple to him anyway or anyone who was viewing reality from his perspective. In this theory it is completely futile to even begin to try and contemplate as we don't even have the correct law of physics and the universe to even start. We would have the laws that God put into place for us to live under. That is right... it may be that really up is down, gravity doesn't exist, mass is a lie, and cause doesn't bring effect. Those are the rules we live by in our universe... but whether or not that is constant beyond our sight? who knows.

                My third theory is that the universe is somehow the mind of God. We are each just a portion of his consciousness made "flesh" in a reality of his making. A big... complex dream.

                Regardless, I do feel that our consciousness is God. Somehow we are a part of that same energy, and everyone is connected. I think we are each bestowed with a portion of this consciousness, and through us God knows life, and all of the things we know. I imagine this because I feel it would be the only way to experience what we do. The wonders we see and feel, the emotions we have, and the way we view the world is something that God would not be able to accomplish (well he would, but only by doing something like that heh. He would accomplish it by living as a mortal... or at least letting a piece of him live as a mortal.)In this way, when we die, we would again be one with God, and he would feel everything we felt. After all... they say we are made in his image, but I would think most rational people would agree that he isn't some big fleshy human floating around in the clouds. So what image would that be? I think that our consciousness is what is his image.

                Well that's just a few theories I play with. Every so often I think very hard and try to come up with the most logical one's. It may be an exercise in futility, but whatever... =P

                  #7.3 - Wed Jun 9, 2010 4:06 PM EDT
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